[cooker-amd64] Re: Re: Proposed A64 platform for Mandrake A64

[Duncan]

Wood Brent posted <20040128184748.1066.qmail@web12207.mail.yahoo.com>,
excerpted below,  on Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:47:48 -0800:

> I can purchase at OEM prices locally, which is usually cheaper than
> anything on Pricewatch.

Cool! =:^)

> I have had no problems with nVidia's drivers. I'm less concerned with
> how open their drivers are than are they available for Linux & do they
> work.
> 
> If you believe that ATi has better Athlon64 support than the new nVidia
> A64 drivers, I'd be happy to give ATi a go. I've found both to work fine
> as far as hardware goes, but have used nVidia more under Linux, but NOT
> A64.

Well, there's two issues here, plus potentially mixing the one compared
against the other on the other platform.

The one issue is the open drivers.  Since these come with the kernel, and
are open, any i586 developments are likely to be ported to any relevant
hardware platform, including x86_64/amd64 rather quickly, along with the
general kernel.  In the area of open drivers, ATI does have better
support, because, as I mentioned, they are more open with the interface
data require to provide that support.  However, it must be said that for
the newer cards, support is generally lacking in the newer open drivers,
except for bare minimum 800x600 display or something similar, bringing the
support for the newer cards in line with that provided by the open nv
drivers, which actually might be better for the newer cards.

The other issue is closed drivers, available from both companies.  Here, a
new or lower use platform, and AMD64 is still fairly new and will be lower
use than i586 for a year or two yet, means delayed support.  Both ATI and
Nvidia are just getting out support for the AMD64 platform now.  More than
that, I can't really say, because as I mentioned, I vowed to stay away
from closed source drivers, and switched away from NVidia when I got the
AMD64, which I was going to do eventually, but did it then, because they
DIDN'T have good closed source drivers available for the platform.

Now that NVidia has announced AMD64 support with their newest driver, it
may solve your problem.  Or.. it may not, because keep in mind that the
AMD64 platform is newer and less mature, so kernel developments will
likely continue at a faster pace for it for awhile, and if you intend to
keep up with those, again, you are going to have to plan on recompiling
the closed source driver every time you upgrade the kernel, which, take it
from me, gets to be a chore.  OTOH, if you don't think you will be
upgrading the kernel that often, and will stay with Mandrake's mainstream
kernels when you do, Nvidia's pre-built binaries may indeed continue to be
all you need, and you will be fine.

I just know that for my faster upgrade cycles, and self-compiled kernels,
Nvidia, plus the fact that the open nv drivers don't support the
functionality I need, the hassle-price of NVidia got to be more than I was
willing to pay.  Couple that with believing strongly in open source, and
the choice wasn't a difficult one for me.

One other factor to consider..  While Linus himself is quite pragmatic
about closed source driver modules, not ALL the kernel developers are, and
the policy is gradually tightening down on proprietary modules.  Kernel
2.6 policy for the first time enumerates functions proprietary drivers are
able to use, and others reserved only for open licensed GPL compatible
drivers.  I happen to agree with this, but many obviously don't.  Anyway,
kernel policy is likely to continue to tighten down on proprietary
extensions, and somewhere in either the 2.6 or 2.7 (to be 2.8 or 3.0 at
stable release) cycle, it's quite possible that NVidia and other
proprietary driver developers are going to find their style increasingly
crimped, as they try to access the narrowing kernel interface scope
allowed to them.  Now, 2.8/3.0 is likely a good two years out, possibly
further, beyond the reasonably-current lifetime of any graphics cards you
will be buying now.  Thus, it's not likely this is going to be an issue
with your current generation purchases.  However, it's possible, and it's
a definite thing to consider further out, say in a year or two, if current
kernel policy trends re closed source interfaces continue to tighten.  If
those using closed source drivers are lucky, hardware device makers will
eventually see the light, particularly as open source software platforms
become a larger segment of the hardware market, and open their interface
specs in support of open drivers.  However, that's not a spot I'd like to
be in as a customer, depending on that to happen, and that's one of the
big things open source is designed to PREVENT, customers being forced into
such a situation by their vendors, so again, the open source way is the
most flexible way, for customers.

If, given all that, a customer still chooses hardware with closed source
drivers, for the current situation, that's their choice.  However, the
future situation is going to look a bit different, and it's always a
gamble how soon that future will be here.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --
Benjamin Franklin