[cooker-amd64] Re: Re: using and compiling rpms not specifically put together for amd64

[Duncan]

Arie Folger posted <200401251903.28574.afolger@aishdas.org>, excerpted
below,  on Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:03:28 +0100:

> No, you didn't scare me off at all, although I had a much easier time than
> you. The isos installed almost flawlessly. Some bugs, but nothing
> excessively bad.

Oh. the ISOs installed for me, no real problems there (save for the fact
that RC1 wouldn't let me do custom package selection, so there was more
add and remove of additional packages later than I would have liked, but
GB has a patch up for that). My problem was all the stuff I wanted to run
that wasn't ON the ISOs, only in (at that point) i586, on the mirrors.
 <g>

> However, two points remain unclear (one of which I hadn't even spoken
> about). You wrote that SRPMS have to be linked to the 64 bit libs
> automatically, and then you write about the target x86_64. Which one is
> it? 

I guess I didn't make myself clear, then.  There WAS a lot of info I was
trying to pack in and I wasn't quite happy with the order it all came out
in. Stephan had a slight correction, anyway. There are three levels of
automation.

1) With SRPMs that have already been "mklib-ed" (Stephan said that's the
correct word), that is, adjusted to make use of the proper RPM macros
already installed, all that is taken care of automatically.  

2) Older SRPMs, of which there probably aren't so many around any more,
have been adjusted, but were created before Mdk decided to follow AMD's
suggestion and call it AMD64, rather than the generic x86_64.  (amd64 is
far easier to type, anyway, so I'm glad they switched. <g>)  These were
done for the Mandrake Corporate Server for AMD64 products, or very early
in the 9.2 for AMD64 beta cycle, before the naming policy decision was
made.  They won't recognize the automatically used --target amd64, but
HAVE been at least PARTIALLY fixed, and will either work right-off or at
least get further, requiring less manual tweaking, if the --target x86_64
RPM command line parameter is added  for the build.  

IOW, some packages created b4 the amd64 naming policy don't recognize
that, and since that's what RPM feeds in automatically, these packages
simply require that you tell RPM what the generic platform is, that being
x86_64. using the --target command line parameter. during the build.

3) Not yet ported/mklibed srpms don't recognize either.  These present
more problems, and require additional manual tweaking.

> Secondly, when is Mandrake going to release the final version for
> ftp download? I understand it wants to give paying customers a leg up
> (ahem, I pay, too, as a Mandrake club subscriber, so let's just say
> boxed set buyers), but would it not release the isos rather soon, in the
> spirit of the GPL? (no flaming invited, just trying to understand)

That's a VERY good question, and one I'd love to know the answer to as
well.  In some ways, it doesn't particularly matter to me, as I'm
following cooker, and thus, by the time they release them to FTP, much of
my system will already be beyond the ISOs.

In other ways it's nice to have the updated hard copy around, that I know
will install, and with the additional packages in a unit tested
and "supported" by Mdk as a whole.

(That's one reason I'd prefer to have some sort of "electronic edition" I
could buy.. club doesn't provide anything of real value to me, and in
at least two ways is counter-productive, since part of the club fees
pay for the proprietary-ware "extras" that are available, and I don't
want **ANY** of my $$ going to support proprietary-ware, and it's sort
of a vote at this point for i586, not amd64, and might cause Mdk to
focus accordingly.  Neither is the CD package of a lot of use to me, since
I'd prefer to d/l and burn my own anyway, so why pay the big $$ and only
have Mdk get perhaps half of it, the rest going to physical media and
shipping,  for something that's going to be basically useless by the time
I get it anyway?  An "electronic edition" giving me a download login valid
on a Mdk server for 30 days for say us$30, or an annual subscription, for
say us$60 (or whatever the cut Mdk gets on the CDs is, plus say $10
for server and bandwidth costs), but cutting out the wasted $$ on the
extras, would be PERFECT.)

Anyway.. the info's on the list, if you take a look around.  I don't have
any inside knowledge and am getting what I know from the list myself. 
That said, the latest I've read on the list was that the ISOs didn't
actually ship until about mid-week last week, and they weren't going to
publicly mirror b4 that.  Now that they've shipped, everybody's expecting
them to show up within a couple weeks, but no one knows quite when.  With
9.2 i586, there was about a 10-day to 2 week period before they went fully
public, after shipping started, but cooker folks had access well before
full public opening to bittorrents of the new isos.  Whether they are
going to do something similar for AMD64 or not, I don't know.  They may
figure the focus group is to small to get an effective torrent going. 
They may be right.  However, if it's that small, offering non-anon FTP
might be effective, and still control the distribution.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --
Benjamin Franklin