[cooker-amd64] Re: Re: using and compiling rpms not specifically put together for amd64

[Duncan]

Stefan van der Eijk posted <4013CA8C.5000904@eijk.nu>, excerpted below, 
on Sun, 25 Jan 2004 14:54:20 +0100:

> Even if you *do* find a way to sneak one by them, you'll get your arse 
> toasted in the mailinglist. Blaming you for everyhting that ever went 
> wrong even though the *technical* truth is different. But that doesn't 
> matter for them, even though the package was already broken, you 
> uploaded it a 2nd time, and get blamed for everything.
[]
> Conclusion: just forget KDE, for now.

Saving the rest to reply to later, but thought I'd reply to this.

It's easy to get impatient and call names and blame.. but it doesn't
really help.

Along about my 8th grade year, my dad (a teacher and school administrator)
took over directorship of a Navajo mission in New Mexico.  The stories I
could tell.. but what relates to this discussion is one of the words of
wisdom the departing director left with my dad, as the three of us toured
the mission, thus, in my hearing.  He said that the most difficult part of
being director wasn't the money, or the regulations, or the kids, or any
of that.  Rather, it was getting all the staff to work together, and the
job of having to KEEP them working together, even amongst personal
dislikes and sometimes outright hostility.

That was many years ago, but obviously, it left a big impression on me. 
At times like this, I remember it.  Us geek types may be harder than most
to keep working together, because we tend to be used to being the smartest
and most technically inclined of most of our social groups, in many cases.
Thus, we tend to have a way of believing that what we think about
something is THE way it must be done.  This sort of gut belief obviously
can tend to lead to friction.

I'm not specifically defending Laurent, the person who is, after all, the
Mdk KDE team, basically.  However, he's the one they've got, at this
point, and we work with him on KDE or don't work at all, basically,
regardless of his social or personal qualities, good or bad.  Also, he's
pretty good technically, it would appear, and that we are lucky to have,
regardless of his ability to work with the team.  Perhaps we'd be better
off with a different person with a bit better team skills, regardless of
technical ability.  That could be argued.  However, right now, we have
what we have, it comes with the Mandrake KDE packages, and as long as we
choose Mandrake and KDE, we choose to work with him, like it or not.  

Thus, my attitude is.. make the best of the situation.  If it eventually
proves unworkable, either I will move on, or he will, but for now, we've
both chosen Mandrake, he as employee assigned to those packages, me as
user of them, so I either learn to live with it, or move elsewhere, and at
this point, living with it is easier than pulling up and moving elsewhere,
so I might as well enjoy it as best I can.

Truth is, I know *I'M" not ready to take on the position, and tho there
are others that might be, I can't say how well they'd work converting
KDE's packages to Mandrake's policies either, if they were stuck with the
ENTIRE job, so I'm not ready to say I'd prefer someone else in the
position, teamwork or no teamwork.  Besides, it's not MY call.  So, I'll
let the Mdk administrative team do what it does, and get back to this task
that seems I'm ever-so-slow at getting anywhere with, that of learning
enough about Linux, and here RPM and Mandrake specifically, to be of more
than occasional help from the sidelines, as seems to be the case, now.

I'm learning, but it's EVER so slow a process!  I guess that's why I've
been a bit hesitant to get an account on the wiki or with Mdk, as you
suggested elsewhere in the reply.  I don't understand even HALF of the
RPM packaging process, yet, and really don't know what I could DO at that
level, yet.

On the bright side, that's one of the good things about this whole AMD64
thing, despite the frustration.  I'm HAVING to learn a bit, in ordered to
get stuff to work, which is why I deliberately decided to jump into it so
early, after all, rather than waiting another upgrade cycle.  It has
FORCED the learning process, sometimes a bit faster than I'd like, but
that's what I WANTED, after all, and why I got into it.  I don't
understand packaging yet, but I'm  closer now, than I was even when I
wrote that frustrated message a week or whatever it was ago, thanks to
your pointing out to me your logs, and what I was able to learn browsing
through them. and FAR closer now, than I was before I switched to AMD64,
when I'd seen you guys discussing RPM macros, but hadn't ever actually
SEEN one yet.  <g>

It's coming.  It's just TAKING forever, or seems to be, sometimes.  <g> 
Then again, I realize how far I've come in the two years on
Linux-Mandrake, and that I'm roughly where I was after a decade on
MSWormOS, and I realize I'm making progress AFTER all.  It's just that
Linux is such a **BIG** subject!  <g>

(I did get a bit more time this week, and have spent a good share of it
learning more about kernels, and looking at upgrading to 2.6 here.  I
wasn't aware of the 2.6 Mdk kernels for amd64 you mentioned, so was
getting back into compiling my own 2.4 kernel, in prep for doing the same
with 2.6.  However, it's back to work again later this afternoon, but
hopefully I'll have some extra time again next week.)

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --
Benjamin Franklin